Finished Painting

It's taken me near enough a week to finish painting the sashes. I can only do one side at a time, it takes at least 24 hrs to dry and its had an additional 3 coats. I'm now happy with the finish.

I'm not certain about the putty used to fill the screw holes, it had skinned over but was still soft underneath. As a result sanding it flat wasn't very practical. However I got them fairly flat and it's something I can redo after the window is fitted.

When the lead arrives, I'll be ready to fit it. It's going to be tight getting it done before Christmas!

Weight built up - slight problem

Dam - worth a try on to plan B



I cleaned up eight of the cast iron weights and gave them a coat of hammerite. After much thinking about ways of connecting them, articulated so I could feed them in pairs into the pockets, I came up with this solution.

A length of stainless steel cable loops through the hole in the top weight down to the second weight. Both ends are clamped using a 12mm bolt with 2 holes drilled through, a washer and nut.

I had to keep the total length, after re-measuring, within 750mm to get full movement of the sashes. I just managed this, but realised I'd have to be really accurate tying it on to the sash cord.

I had calculated the weight of the sashes and set about adding squashed lead pipe to make up the weight. Easy enough to wind around but it took ages to mange to solder tack the spiral together. It was a cold night and iron took the heat away.

Disaster - I checked actual weight of the sashes using bathroom scales and I was short by 2kg on the made-up weights. More procrastination, I couldn't add enough extra weight without either increasing the width, or adding to the length. So it was back to the calculator and Plan B.

I'll use one cast iron weight and one proper (bought) lead weight. So not a total catastrophe as using the iron will reduce the lead I need to buy by half. I also think the ones I've made up will suit one of the slightly narrower window.

I've now ordered the lead and will be picking it up next week.

Shiny bits-hardware , note on paint

After another coat, Its not as glossy as the previous. I'm wondering if I laid it on too thick, I'll make sure I go really thin on the sashes and see what difference it makes.

But it's good enough, especially as the inside parts will have a final coat after its all fitted.

To free up some space in the front room, with Christmas coming and trees going up, I fitted the pulleys. A good tap in fit. mmm shiny bits. Now its residing on the landing.



I've now got the sashes to paint and weight to sort out. Maybe I'll finish for Christmas?

Glazing the sashes

This is the interface between old joinery with up to date fenstration (glazing)

I picked up the Double Glazed, after a slight delay - I've ended up with two toughened units for the price of one. On close inspection the two panes of glass aren't perfectly aligned and the edge spacer, being a flexible foam, isn't perfectly straight. I don't know what tolerances are usual so I'm not going to gripe about it. The edges are sealed with a hot melt black, slightly tacky stuff. This is uneven on the edges of the glass and compound the slight miss alignment of the two pieces. For the other windows I'll ask if they will pay a little more attention to this.

The sealed units fit in the sashes, resting on 5mm deep bridge packers to maintain ventilation around all the edges This should prevent any moisture from attacking the edge sealant.

The packers I bought are 24mm, the rebate is 28mm so I cut little tabs in edges so the packers will sit in the middle.

I'd ordered the units 10mm under the sash rebate sizes. The sashes are about +/- 0.5mm and the glazing (due to the misalignment and edge seal build up) are about up to + 1.5. So I had to sand down some of the packers to get neat tight fit without distorting the timber of the sash.

Next the adhesive backed EPDM seals are fitted.

The bottom seals extend horizontally and the side pieces end butt up to them.

After tinkering with all packers I was happy to screw the beading/clamp on.

Note: I had counter bored the holes a few mm to much, the head sank a bit more than I expected.

I'm generally happy with the result. The glass held firmly, the seals are well compressed, it looks neat and nothing like a plastic DG window.

The only thing that bugs me is all the screw holes that need filling. It does mean I can dissemble the sashes if or when the units eventually fail. However I keep pondering if there could be a more elegant solution, possibly using the mechanical strength of the actual units ????

Last bit of glazing is to put a bead of silicone around. I choose only to do the outside, I'll wait and see if there is any need to do the inside. In the spirit of experimentation I did one with no masking, point proved, I can't gun and tool neatly without have to scrape loads off the glass and frame. The other one I spent 5 mins masking up and did a much neater job.

USE : Low modulus - Natural cure , this is flexible, and doesn't have the solvents that react badly with Sealed units and glass coatings.

The stuff I found is labeled as a frame sealant, not glazing sealant.

This pic shows the silicone with a layer of paint on it. Can also see the silicone bead doesn't fill the flat on top of the bevel.

Note: Consider adjusting the design bevel. Reducing the flat and the over-all sash thickness.

Also prior to painting I've filled the screw hole with linseed putty. I'm not sure about this but it's reccomended by the paint manufacturer so I'm trying it.

Weights - cheap option

I was ready to order the lead but had a quick look on ebay. I found an auction on with 24 hrs to go for an assortment of 10 cast iron weights, for pick up close to home. So I put a bid in and won for £2.50 - what a bargin. He had a load more when I went to collect so bought the lot for £20.

It will not be a perfect solution as the weights are oly about the right size for single glazing. I've worked out that if the weights are less than 800mm I'll get full movement of the sashes. So I can hang one under another and wrap some scrap lead pipe around them to get enough mass.

If this works out I'll have saved about £300.

Linseed Oil painting

The main drawback with linseed oil paints seems to be the drying time required. 24 hours at 20 -25 degrees centigrade. With the weather as it is this means I've abandened the workshop and taken over the front room.

The first coat is of raw linseed oil, applied hot, 60deg. I decanted some in to tin and warmed it with a hot air gun, it only takes a couple of mins to get it up to temperature. It's brushed in vigerously in a thin coat. I ran over it with the hot air gun as well to aid it soaking in.

It's lovely stuff to use, pleasent smell and doesn't matter if you get it on your hands. The only problem was, due to slippy hands I dropped the tin. Small panic, but most landed on the news paper.

It took three days to dry, at and average temperature of 18 degrees. So a can't get away with not turning the central heating on, we normally rely solely on the wood burner in the dinning room.

Next step - Shellac on the glazing rebates and knots. Easy, Quick job.

The first coat of paint is worked in well and thin as with the raw oil

This dried within 36 hours after I closed the door and put the heating on.

The first coat covers well and dried to matt finish

Untill I've got the glass fitted I can't do anything else with the sashes but I can with the frame.

A light sanding of the frame and filling screw holes with puty, followed by another coat. A patchy gloss is developing,

I think the third coat will give a lovely finish.

Glazing Ordered

I've been and ordered the sealed units today from a local company "Pro-Glass Glazing Services"
These will be with foam type warm edge spacer and hot melt sealed, one toughened one standard, with pilkington K.

Total price now with only 15% VAT - £114.12

The final straight

With all the wood working done all I've got to do know is:

1. One coat of raw linseed oil
2. Shellac on the glazing rebates
3. Order, and fit the glazing
4. Silicon on top of the seals?
5. Paint first coat
6. Paint second coat
7. Order and collect lead or steel
8. Take out the old window
9. Fit the new one, that should be fun.
10. Paint third coat
11. Plaster up
12. Architrave
13. Decorate.
14. Have a beer or two to celebrate
15. Start on the others

Now there's a plan........

Last bits for the frame

All that remains is to cut the parting beads and staff beads.

I cut out a radius on the bottom of parting beads to ensure water wont lodge behind them.

The staff beads are mitered. As my compound miter saw, compounds and miters as it likes I set the cross slide on the router at 45 and trimmed the ends to get them bang on.

Glueing up the frame

As I'm using fast PU glue I had to think this through and make sure everything was ready to hand. Even with preparation in place I wasn't confident about doing it all at once.

So I glued up the boxes first and using grease proof paper again I screwed the cill and top rail on to make sure it was all square.

When this had hardened up I took the cill back off removed the grease proof glued it and re-screwed it. The same with the top rail. And later I did the top inner and outer. It all worked well with only a little fettling with the plane to flatten a couple of the joints.

Clamp / Glazing Beads

But first - don't forget the parting bead cut out on the meeting rail. Top Sash and bottom sash clamping bead/meeting rail. Should look like this.

After carefully marking out avoiding the vent holes, I drilled and counter sunk the clamp/beads

I came to the conclusion that gluing the clamping/glazing beads together would be a good idea. It'll be easier to paint, it shouldn't show up a join after painting, the seals will be easier to fit. so I glued and assembled them on to sashes with some grease proof paper in between to stop them sticking.

After fettling with the smoothing plane and some light sanding the sashes are ready for painting.

Seals experiments

This is an area I pondered quite a bit. Originally I was going to use sticky both sides glazing tape. having bought some I decided it didn't have enough give in it to accommodate any movement and would be pig to fit. Hence to order for EPDM (foam rubbery) seals, after I'd tested some with linseed oil on them. Compression of the EPDM was the next thing I had to figure out.

As can be seen on the mock up the idea is the inside face of the sash is screwed on to the main sash, holding the glass in place and compressing the seals. The downside to this is the counter sunk screw holes will need filling, but its a compromise I decided to make.

I made up a mock 24mm glazing unit a tested the 3mm EPDM seals I had bought. you can also see the 5mm bridge spacer I'll be using to keep an air space around the unit.

I wasn't happy with amount of compression on the seals, only squashed from 3mm to 2mm. The ridges on seals were only just compressed. So another order this time for 4mm.

This worked out much better, all the ridges are almost completely squashed and the glass is held firmly. I think this should hold the rain out for a good while.

I then did a little experiment to see how muck clamping pressure is needed to compress the seals this much, so I could be happy with the screw spacing.

This showed me that a 200mm length of 4mm seal needs 15kg applied to compress it to 2mm.
I should think this won't be a problem to achieve with 1 1/2 no. 6 screws at 150mm spacing. The clamping wood is 15mm so I shouldn't think it will distort.

Cill rebate for backing cover

This would have been easier before assembly as well. A rebate in the end of the cill to take the backing cover of the weight box.


As it was it didn't take long with a chisel, I could have use the router, but at this point hitting something with a mallet felt good.

BIG Mistake

I went ahead and glued the frame up!

Can you spot the mistake?

I hadn't cut the weight pocket out... doh!

The pockets need an arrow shape at the top and and a stepped cut at the bottom. Not easy if I hadn't glued up the frame, but I should have been able to do it with a tenon saw and the long cut down the parting bead rebate with a jigsaw.

The first one I tried with a dremel, hence the burning. The second I used the dremel to cut a Stanley knife blade in to a makeshift saw blade which was a little easier. After the cuts are made a tap with the mallet splits the between the stepped cuts. Giving a pocket cover that only needs one screw to hold it in place.

Update on cutting pockets here Sash Weight pocket cutting

Pulleys and Fitch Fastner

The pulleys are good quality and feel really nice with the bearings in them. Fitting is easy.

Using the Morticer

Then router to let in the face plates, corners with a chisel.

The Fitch Fasteners, I worked out eventually are supposed to fit on the top sash, to restrict both sash moving past a certain point. I however wanted only the bottom sash restricting and thought they would be easy to fit on the pulley stiles. The problem was, when closed the back end would interfere with the weights.

After some head scratching I drove the hinge pin out and took about 4mm off the back of the catch. At the same time I tidied up the rather poor fettling and re-polished them.

I'm sure they will do the job now.

Nasty little knot though.

Bottom Sash Bottom Rebate

The bootom of the bottom sash is rebated 5mm for two reasons.

1. To create a drip stop.


2. to create a cavity behind where air pressure will drop so water isn, blown up to the upstand on the rebate. (thats the theory anyway)

Just a quick zip on the router table.

Extra relief for the pulley

This is something else I needed to measure the pully for. The cord groove in the sashes fits the cord nicely but not the pulley it's self.

The groove at the top of each sash needs to be bit deeper, I went for 10mm, and long enough so the sash will slide all the way up.

Hardware delivered, Paint delivered

The hardware order arrived, an excellent fast service from Reddiseals. Now I've got the pulleys etc. I can do the required cutting to fit them on the stiles.
I've also ordered and had delivered the linseed oil paint fro Holkam. I'm going to give it a go, after all the first window is suposed to test.
I've been busy over the weekend finishing off the wood working, all the piece are the front room ready to start painting.
I'll try and arrange the posts above to give a logical and efficent order although this wasn't the order I worked in, and I ended up wasting many hours.

Linseed Oil Paint

More research, I've emailed "Holkhan" and had a good reply back.

The linseed oil may react with the edge sealing of sealed units, so they recommend conventional paint or shellac in the rebate, this is also so sticky backed seals will stick. They are still looking into the effects on EPDM foam seals for me.

I've had my own little experiment going for the last week. Some Boiled Linseed Oil on some seal samples. There's no noticeable deterioration yet. So its looking good.

LEAD weighty choice

I've been doing some ringing around, emailing and web searches looking for a good price on lead weights.

I also checked to see what the maximum size of weight would fit in the boxes - result 45mm or 1 1/4 inch square will go in easily with plenty of clearance for fitting .

Each sash will need around 16kg, so each window 32kg and each individual weight 8kg. At 45mm square they will need to be approx 390mm long, leaving loads of room for up and down movement. Knowing how long they have to be also allowed me to work out how long the pockets in the pulley rail will be to get the weights in.

With the other windows I've estimated I'll need around 160kg in total and I used this figure to get some prices. The obvious, easy to find companies must be making a big margin or are still selling stocks bought when the lead prices peaked. I eventually found a fairly local smelting company, I can collect from, that has quoted £1.60 per kilogram.

At this price I don't think I'll be smelting my own. But its still a possibility If I come across some scrap lead cheap enough.

HOWEVER - As there is plenty of up and down room in the boxes, I've done another quick calculation for using steel bar. At 45mm square it will still fit! even though I'd do each weight in two parts, segmented, so I wouldn't need a really long pocket. Some more ringing around needed to price up this option.

Sealed Units

I've done some ringing around and found a very local company that manufactures the units for some of the local window companies. I asked for a number of options on the prices but all following are for 2 units, approx 1000 x 800mm as 4 - 16 - 4 (thats 4mm glass and 16mm space) with Pilkington K glass.

1. Toughened glass, standard spacers £121
2. Toughened glass, "warm edge spacers" £134
3. Standard glass, standard spacers £85
4. Standard Glass, "warm edge spacers" 98.24

The K glass and 16mm space should get me the required U value if I through Building Control regs.
I'll need toughened glass on the lower sash for some of windows, as the cills are low, again part of the regs.
The warm edge spacer sound like a good idea to me, as standard aluminium spacers cold bridge between the glass. At £6.50 difference for each unit I think I'll try it out.

I think I'll leave ordering these until I've started on the painting, there's no sense having big bits of glass laying around our house for longer than neccesary.

Hardware Order In

Back to it after a fantastic few days relaxing in a cozy cottage at Robin Hoods Bay.

I've ordered the required hardware for 7 windows from www.reddiseals.com the following should be arriving on Monday.

DESCRIPTION, QUANTITY,PRICE,COST
PUZ011PB Polished Brass Ball Pulley 28 £3.35 £93.80
CW511 Weatherpile in Self Adhesive Carrier 21 £1.20 £25.20
CW512 Weatherpile in Self Adhesive Carrier 7 £1.35 £9.45
FS819B Brass Fitch Fastener 14 £1.95 £27.30
FS828B Brass Sash Handle 14 £0.85 £11.90
FS826B Brass Sash Eye 7 £0.75 £5.25
FS834B Brass Pole Hook 1 £2.10 £2.10
FP851 Weekes Stop 3 £1.30 £3.90
REW0309 EPDM Tape 1 £24.00 £24.00
SF2002 Glazing Silicone 2 £2.25 £4.50 (although I dont think I'll need it in retrospect)
Subtotal: £207.40 Inc VAT and Shipping £254.28

So per window £36.33 (plus sash cord I've already got)

Also on the hardware front I had to elsewhere for the "Bridge Spacers" these are little plastic packers (5mm) that go around the unit and leave an air gap underneath. £1 for 20 + £6 postage.

You can see above that Ive ordered EPDM Tape. This is closed cell foam 3 x 9mm sticky backed one side. I'll see how it goes.

Hardware Order

It's time to order the sealed units, seals and hardware. I'm likely to ponder this for a while and check out glazing suppliers. I've got the latest Reddiseals catologue, they supplied the hardware for the small test window, so I'll sit and have a look through that.

The other main decision is the actual seal to the glazing. There are a few types of seal available so got some further research to do.

Whilst I'm at it I'll do some more research in to Linseed oil paints. I was going to go for conventional paints but from what I've read on various forums I'm tempted to go with "Holkham" paints.

If anyone has any experience, please let me know. I'm after the best solution and price doesn't mater.

Cord groove

All the way down each side of both sashes the cord groove is routered.

Although the cord will only go about 200 down the sides the groove goes all the way. This can help stop water being driven on to the brush seals.

To make this a little steadier to cut, as its on the full glued up sashes, I knocked up another large fence. I'm sure it'll come in handy for other jobs.

I also need to widen the groove at the top to allow the pulley to pass. I'll wait until the hardware arrives to figure out the dimensions.

Back to the Job

After a few celebratory beers on Saturday night, it was back to it on Sunday as there's still more to do.

The parting beads, Staff beads and weight separators.

Simple planing thicknessing and routering.

Client Approval

This was the first time Wendy could get a proper idea what they will look like.

RESULT! yeah.

Making the horns

As the rebates are so deep I filled them in by gluing blocks. One for the rebate and one to get the overall depth the same as when the "bead pieces are fitted.

Then I cut the horn shape with my jig saw. This is far from ideal as the longest blades only just manage it. The blade wandered of perpendicular towards the bottom of the cut and it needed a sanding to get the shape right.

However, it worked out well enough.

Now ready for assembly check

With the parts cut and drilled its all ready for an assembly check.

I screwed blocks on cill to make sure the pulley stiles where square before pilot drilling. These will be removed before gluing.

I used 3" No. 8 for the outside and inside lining and 4" N0 10's for the pulley stiles. Pilot drilled for the full screw length, going in to end grain I didn't want anything splitting.

The top rail fitted nicely, just pulling a bit twist in pulley stile back in to shape.

With this fitted I could mark up and cut the top linings.

The top linings are fitted with blocks, crude but effective.

I glued and screwed the blocks on, after marking up on the frame. I used a rule to make sure they where on straight.

So that's it (ish) for the frame. Picture to follow....

Almost Ready for Frame Assembly

With all the pieces cut it's all ready for for an assembly check. But a little more first.

Mark out and drill the screw holes in cill.

Machine out notches in the outside lining, these will stop water pooling where they meet the cill.

Round of any sharp outside edges.

Why? - It is said, and I can believe it, paint doesn't like staying on 90 degree angles. Recommendations are to chamfer corners or round off.

Remember to stop the rounding off:-

1. On the cill where the outside lining will meet.

2. On the outside lining where the outside rail will butt up.

3. While the router's set up do the sash pieces where possible as well - time travel - step now....

I should have rounded off the notched in the outside lining as well.

Setting the Frame Width

The inside width of the frame is determined by the width of of sashes + clearance of 4mm. I marked this on cill and added the thickness off the pulley stile to give me the size of notches I needed to cut.

I cut these by hand. These extend the slope of cill, though the upstand to the width of the inside lining from the back of cill.

From this I could mark up the top frame rail, using the outer edge of the notch.

Cutting the slot to take the tongue of pulley stile using the cross fence, to the inside of the line.

Then (with hindsight) I should have cut the top rail ends to suit fit the outer rebate of the linings and slot the ends to fit the weight seperator. I realised later and ended up with this:-

I've also marked it up for drilling.

Pulley Stile Tops

To make sure the frame will fit the sashes, first check what the two sashes add up to. Rather than just rely on what they should be, why not glue the sashes up and work empirically.

A lot of things to remember from this picture.

1. I planed up two pieces square and flat and bolted them on the router table top. This gives me a flat frame to assemble the sashes on.

2. My cheap " Forged Steel" sash cramps are cheap for a reason, the adjustable back stops don't stay square to bar. Hence twist the rail when clamping. I need to drill, tap and put screws in to stop the movement. Or pack out with flat bladed screw drivers like I did this time.

3. Next time I'll chamfer the end of tenons so they don't push too much of the glue out of mortises.

4. After clamping pressure to close up joints, back off so the stiles aren't bent. Then check they're square.

5. Fox wedges do seem to work. Applying compression but without moving the joint

6. I can assemble and clamp up quick enough to work with PU adhesive.

(Time Travel - Round of the edges I can at before assembly - at the same time as the otside lining, cill and top lining rail, but first know the height, Oh No! chicken and egg time loop. Dr. please help?)

With the sashes glued up I clamped them as they'll be when closed and measured them. Then went back to the paper calculations. I'm glad I checked as I'd not accounted for a rebate on the bottom of the BS Bottom rail (Note: adjust cut list). Apart from that I was only about 1mm out. I'm happy with that.

Adding a 2mm clearance I then knew the height of pulley stile. These then needed cutting with a 5mm tongue added on.

To make sure they both ended up the same height I clamped them together with the bottom ends together. Then the top ends are machined square leaving the tongues.